first build

[Alex Shroyer]

This is supposed to be a testbed for a bunch of ideas I want to try, so I'm using primarily pine. Headless, multi-scale, 8-string, trapezoid/asymmetric neck profile, handmade pickups and tuners. Mostly hand tools.

Here's a video of me testing a tuner prototype with an 0.018 string.

I like to do things the hard way; I feel like that way I can make a bunch of mistakes really quickly and then learn from them for the next try.

Some lessons learned so far:

• Don't buy fretwire in short lengths unless those lengths evenly divide by your fretboard width.

• Pipe clamps or bar clamps are overrated; it's not hard to make a long-reach clamp for body glue up with some scrap wood and wedges.

• A face vise on a proper workbench is not overrated. It's a toss-up between this or a bandsaw when it comes to "most desperately desired tool".

• Shape the back of the neck after getting the neck pocket and tenon sorted.

[JC Whitney]

Enjoyed your tuner test video - am I guessing right that your long term plan is to have lever(s) perpendicular to the body top?

[Jarno Verhoeven]

Interesting testbed!

• I do not mind short lengths of fretwire if it is not too expensive

• Pipe clamps are really helpful! A big piece of plywood and some wedges can be used as well, but I definitely like my pipe clamps (I also make furniture, so I sometimes have glue-ups of longer panels).

• +1 on the face vise, such an enabler, but I am also looking to add an end vise to my bench, as that is helpful when planning small stock
  +1 on the band saw as well, it is a huge asset to the shop, mine is a small but high quality one (Inca 260) which I bought for really little money (50 euros), in super nice condition.

• Yes

[Alex Shroyer]

Enjoyed your tuner test video - am I guessing right that your long term plan is to have lever(s) perpendicular to the body top?

Thanks! Yep, that's the plan. I'll probably end up using a thumbscrew to clamp the string. This iteration that relies only on string tension for the clamping pressure is very tricky to use. A more refined design might fix that, but I don't have precision equipment that I think it would require.

[Alex Shroyer]

Scrapped my first build attempt and incorporated some of the lessons into attempt #2. Still haven't finished a guitar yet so now this chunk of parts inherits the title of "first build".

I've set aside the unusual tuner idea for now in favor of off-the-shelf tuners in an unusual configuration:

This build is testing some other ideas like using an exposed aluminum truss bar:

Not bolted together yet but showing the exposed truss and heel joint:

[Alex Shroyer]

I've since stained the neck with iron acetate. This piece of maple turned a cool bluish grey that I really like. In this photo I've set a bit of aluminum on the body to indicate where the bridge will go.

[Barry Daniels]

After mentoring new builders over many years, I have found that starting out with existing and proven designs will lead to greater satisfaction, rather than trying your own designs. After building a few successful guitars is when you should start to try something original.

This comment mostly relates to your truss rod design. It just looks wrong.

[Alex Shroyer]

Good progress since the last update. Now I'm working on string placement. Need to order the correct string gauges for the scale length.

Barry, I actually agree with your advice. In my case I know I'm not going to get discouraged by failures. That's one reason I went with a bolt-on neck instead of glued. If the truss thing doesn't work I'll just make a new neck.

[Alex Shroyer]

Fretwork done, proper strings on, tuned to A standard, and I desperately need to practice: https://youtu.be/xVk1UAg9IVU

I'm happy with the ergonomics (seated or standing), scale length, tuning, and string gauges (custom 0.0135-0.068 from Stringjoy with a plain 3rd string). These strings tuned A-A feels a little between a Bass VI and a regular baritone.

I'm *incredibly* happy with the tuners behind the bridge. My right hand can leverage its "righty tighty" muscle memory, and it took me about 10 seconds to decide this is a superior tuner arrangement in terms of function, ease of use, and comfort. No issues hitting the tuners while strumming or palm muting etc. The main downside is it looks weird.

That said, I ordered some normal tuners and will redo the pegbox because the nylon string tuners are just not suitable for these strings. The new tuners should increase the break angle very slightly. It bothers me that the break angle isn't the same for every string, but I don't know if that matters.

Downsides: the "exposed truss bar" concept is a dud. The only benefit is you don't have to route a channel in the neck. This neck ended up almost needing a tiny bit of forward bow (which the truss bar can't provide since it's only able to pull) so at the moment it's doing nothing useful. I might remove it and see how long it takes for the guitar to develop some forward bow from the string tension. Or maybe lean into the pull-only aspect and replace the metal bar for something textile based. Reusing guitar strap material could be fun.

Currently I'm working on the pickup and debating whether to route the front and add a pickguard, route the back, or simply just tape it together with exposed wires. Currently leaning toward exposed wires because I'm eager to hear it plugged in.

[Alex Shroyer]

It's electric!

https://youtu.be/hrzKAdYl1SE

Still quite a bit of work to finish the pickup and electronics but it's reassuring to know it works. Also the linear 10k pot worked a lot better than I expected, especially since the output resistance of the two current transformers is just about 80 ohms.

[Matthew Lau]

Thanks for sharing this!

At first, I thought it was a bit weird, but tbh, I may end up copying you.
I have a failed classical guitar, where the neck is unsavable, but the headstock still works.

As for the truss rod, have you considered a dual action rod?
I think LMI had it, and Bitterroot guitars has it at a pretty reasonable price.

[Alex Shroyer]

At first, I thought it was a bit weird, but tbh, I may end up copying you.

Copy away! But I credit most of the idea of the tuner placement to Rossco Wright. He designed the Soloette travel guitar and sells guitars under his own name now (https://www.rosscowright.com/). I think his headstock design is clever and looks good. It's wide enough to hang in a normal guitar hangar. If I can claim one innovation it's probably just staggering the tuners so the middle strings are set deeper into the body than the outer strings.

As for the truss rod, have you considered a dual action rod?

I considered it a many times. The reason this one doesn't have one is I wanted to try the external bar idea. It ended up not really needing any adjustment, and I may get lucky and never need to add one. But if I ever end up selling or giving this guitar to someone in a different climate, or a working musician who needs reliability, then I'd probably add one.

Also, updates: the steel string tuners came in the mail yesterday though so I got to work.

My goal for the new "pegbox" is to get the string break angles more consistent from string-to-string.

[Alex Shroyer]

Some more pickup pictures. The pickup is a low-impedance type inspired by the Lace Alumitone and lots of DIY projects other people have done. It's functionally two coils with opposite direction and also magnetically out of phase.

The bend in the sheet metal was so I could install it without having to route the guitar body. Overall thickness is a little over 0.5".

Here I drew some colored lines indicating current paths through the top and bottom plates:

Steel plate on the bottom, both to direct the magnetic field and also to keep the magnets and polepieces from falling out:

Neodymium magnets. Toroid shape lets pole pieces fit inside. The pole pieces themselves are small nails.

Close-up of the 1000:1 Talema current transformers. There's two in series and in-phase. Talema also makes 2000:1 in this form factor which should be better voltage wise. But this pickup is a little microphonic and I'm not sure if that would also scale with turns ratio. But I want to order some to find out.

[Jarno Verhoeven]

Downsides: the "exposed truss bar" concept is a dud. The only benefit is you don't have to route a channel in the neck. This neck ended up almost needing a tiny bit of forward bow (which the truss bar can't provide since it's only able to pull) so at the moment it's doing nothing useful. I might remove it and see how long it takes for the guitar to develop some forward bow from the string tension. Or maybe lean into the pull-only aspect and replace the metal bar for something textile based. Reusing guitar strap material could be fun.
headstock-end.jpg

It might develop a forward bow, and then you can counter it with the trussrod, but the aluminium angle at the top, which the screw acts upon, that is too weak and it will bend. But if you make this a solid block of material, it will be strong enough.
And also, if you remove the aluminium rod and replace this with thin steel cable, you can even force the neck into a forward bow if you provide a roller to put the cable over halfway up the neck. "simply" drill a hole and put a steel rod in there, so the cables can go from the rear to the front to the rear again, and if you then put tension on it, it will force the neck in a forward bow. There will be concentrated stress at the place of the hinge.

[Alex Shroyer]

I like these ideas. Part of me thinks there's a good chance luthiers in the past tried similar ideas but they didn't catch on and/or were forgotten. Maybe because the methods that have survived are better, or maybe a bunch of other factors - cheaper, availability of materials, less labor, etc.

[Jarno Verhoeven]

Well, the Chapman Stick has a somewhat exposed trussrod. From the pictures I can't really see how it works though, it looks like a compression rod, but that wouldn't work like this. Must have some more things going on.

[Alex Shroyer]

Oh interesting, I never noticed that. Some pictures show 3 bolts that appear to anchor the rod to the neck near the 12th fret, but the rod itself seems to keep going so maybe it's fixed in the middle and adjustable at either end? That seems like a decent idea too.

[Alex Shroyer]

Just a few odds and ends to work on when I feel like it, but it's 100% playable right now, so I'm having fun just playing.

These are now on the back burner:

• sand down the aluminum string retainer at the "headstock" end so it's flush with the wood
• add actual fret position markers on the side (currently it's just center punched divots darkened with pencil)
• swap for an intonation-adjustable bridge
• string tree/retainer/mute at the tuner end to reduce ringing
• cover "extra holes" on the backside of the guitar