Archtop with an arm bevel

[Fred Hintz]

I have an affliction which had me give up practising playing guitar a number of years ago and I thought my only musical involvement would be in making instruments. I had a nice Telecaster but where my arm rubbed against the edge of it I would start getting irritated and it would set off pain in the rest of my body to the point where it would not be worth trying to play. Had the bright idea of trying a Stratocaster and found it was easier on me to the point where I would be willing to try learning to play again. I built some smaller acoustic guitars with different bevels and found I needed to go big or go home, as they say.

Fast forward and I would like an archtop. I was planning on building one but for some reason I forgot about my pain issues and realized I have to go the bevel route with it also. I looked up archtops and bevels with little to show for it. One exception was this guitar.


https://www.lhtguitars.com/fugue

I am unsure how to graduate the top given the funky shape with the one edge falling off (might as well add a belly cut to the back also). I do not see having a recurve in this area also. Am I crazy in thinking I can pull it off?

[Alan Carruth]

A 'wedge' body can be about as effective as a bevel, and the arch out near the edge would act a lot like a bevel anyway, I'd think. Since archtops usually have ribs only 3" high or so, tapering down to 2-1/2" on the bass side, and with a 3-1/2" depth on the treble, should go a long way in terms of comfort. Usually the wedging is done on the back: the top surface of the rim is 'level' and all of the taper comes along the back edge. This simplifies the setup geometry, and making the back to fit is easily done. Everything else remains the same.

[Fred Hintz]

Hi Alan, thank you for your reply. Even with a wedge shape I end up with the major contact area of the guitar at the rim. I flipped over a Telecaster type of guitar (with Strat type of bevels and round-overs) that I built and pretended the strings were on the back of the guitar. Even at a 45 degree angle from my body I only get a thin strip of my arm contacting the rim of the guitar. Fifteen minutes of practising would give me enough problems that I would not pick it up again for days. Just breathing in a t-shirt with the fabric rubbing against my skin causes me pain. I have become a delicate flower of sorts.

I think I am in relatively uncharted territory here in archtops, not sure if anyone could really tell me which way to go. I do need the top where it contacts my arm to be at the same angle as a Stratocaster arm bevel. I have built four acoustic guitars with bevels, each one with it more pronounced than the previous after I made up a body and then find it was not enough. I could carve a top with a built in bevel but the shape would not be a curtate cycloid due to the bevel. I would rather not carve the whole thing and find I have another wall hanger. I don't know, we will see.

[Barry Daniels]

You could add an external arm rest with the necessary angle. Here is one I did for a guy who's body chemistry affected the finish. The arm rest is held on with magnets so it can easily be removed anytime.

[Alan Carruth]

Do the cycloid arch with the low point well in from the edge. Normally I have that at the inside edge of the liner, so I'd want to use a wider liner than usual: say 1/2"? Then you put on a wide binding that can be rounded over. It could even be laminated and solid, at least in the lower bout on the right side. I don't knw if that would be enough, but you can lay it out in section and see how it compares with what you have found to work.

[Fred Hintz]

You could add an external arm rest with the necessary angle. Here is one I did for a guy who's body chemistry affected the finish. The arm rest is held on with magnets so it can easily be removed anytime.

As much as I thought "This might not be for me." I can admit to myself that is my bias talking. After spending a few years learning how to solve the problem with flattops just stick a piece of something off the but of the guitar? All right, let us see what I have in the shop that I could rig up. Found a cutoff from a mold for bending sides, a little filing (bearings went in my belt sander) and it fit well enough on a LP body. Darn hard to clamp in a vice, I managed though.



the concept works but with the movement of my arm while strumming it is not quite ideal. It would be better if the angle started two inches in from the edge of the body. If there was no recurve in this section and the arch continues into the arm rest it might work. OK, the wood is a little rough and unfinished but just mucking about with it has my arm starting to get sensitized where it touched. I would be doing just fine if I wanted to learn piano, sigh. Or learn to play without my arm touching the guitar? But it is an interesting solution, we will put it in the "maybe" column.

Do the cycloid arch with the low point well in from the edge. Normally I have that at the inside edge of the liner, so I'd want to use a wider liner than usual: say 1/2"? Then you put on a wide binding that can be rounded over. It could even be laminated and solid, at least in the lower bout on the right side. I don't knw if that would be enough, but you can lay it out in section and see how it compares with what you have found to work.

My practice guitar behind the Gibson, hardware spray paint, has about four inches of my arm laying on the bevelled area (that just barely be seen due to the camera flash). A little bevel might not cut it. Maybe a combination of a wedge body, no recurve there and external arm rest? I am starting to feel this may be a multi-guitar build until I get it right. The flat top experiments tool three guitars until I got things right. Hey, who ever said my life would be easy?

[Barry Daniels]

With the sensitivity, you probably would be best with a guitar that has NO contact with your arm. Just do a massive cutaway in the lower bout. I don't think it would take long for you to adjust to it.

[Fred Hintz]

With the sensitivity, you probably would be best with a guitar that has NO contact with your arm. Just do a massive cutaway in the lower bout. I don't think it would take long for you to adjust to it.

Probably would be a good idea for an electric, maybe not so much for an acoustic though. Maybe I will try it after I finish the guitars I have going on now. The making of an archtop was just something that came together when I picked up a piece of wood that I forgot I had. A frivolous idea I had but I have had them before and followed them. I modified a POS nylon I bought to get the case that came with it,



which has me building this one. Pushed back a little so I could build one I promised someone. The back was missing the sound hole brace.





The orange one is not too bad, I carved away the bevels, chambered the inside, came in at three pounds, Weight is an issue for me also.



I started with a little bevel on the right hand guitar and progressively made them bigger on the other two Martin size 5's, the ones that are not finished. Got to the point where I could sit with them on my lap and decided they were not quite good enough bevel wise.



So my building for others has taken a back seat to getting me something I can live with. Thought of making a silent guitar type of build, maybe that one will have a cutaway for the lower bout? That is an idea I never had. I will have to get a light piece of wood for the neck, as much as I am not a great fan of the headless bridge tuners it might be something a featherweight silent guitar could use. A piece of cedar for the neck and wrap the neck in carbon fiber. Can I make a 1 lb guitar? That would be interesting.

[Fred Hintz]

I am guessing this is laminated.





Not to be critical but just wondering how good this would sound.

[Mark McLean]

Hi Fred
I know it was a few months ago that you were posting about this - so maybe you have settled on a method and done it already. I made an acoustic with a bent-top arm bevel following the method of Mike Doolin, as he outlined here:
http://www.doolinguitars.com/articles/armbevel/

I found that I didn't need to do the complex stuff that he describes with the binding as mine just bent to conform without too much trouble. I find that it is certainly comfortable for my arm, and it doesn't look too weird!

[Fred Hintz]

Hi Fred
I know it was a few months ago that you were posting about this - so maybe you have settled on a method and done it already. I made an acoustic with a bent-top arm bevel following the method of Mike Doolin, as he outlined here:
http://www.doolinguitars.com/articles/armbevel/

I found that I didn't need to do the complex stuff that he describes with the binding as mine just bent to conform without too much trouble. I find that it is certainly comfortable for my arm, and it doesn't look too weird!

Thank you for replying Mark. I have bent a few tops now, progressively more with each one with the above body having the most bend. I need to get back to this guitar, have been busy with amplifiers and speaker cabinets for the last while. Pulled out some fret boards that I need to cut the slots in for the three guitars running around in my head. Never a dull moment.

[Fred Hintz]

Repurposing my first guitar, was a spruce solid body that I hollowed out and put a top on it. It was better than I anticipated but fell short of a real acoustic which prompted me to go down the rabbit hole building a better guitar. This one was a flat top with an archtop bridge. I will have to make some adjustments to get the saddle height right. Stuck a bent top on this one, you can see how I got confused about Mr. Wells's design.



Will have to shim the neck a little. I do not know how stiff the neck pocket would be if I routed it down enough, the body is spruce and the thickness is not all that thick. Or make it an archtop? I did want to see how much bass I can get out of such a thin body with a fixed bridge, I will have to think about it yet.

And just for fun.