Conde Orange.

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Gilbert Fredrickson
Posts: 291
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:07 pm

Conde Orange.

Post by Gilbert Fredrickson »

I remember seeing orange artesian flamenco guitars in Valencia, Spain. They were very close to shade of orange used by the Hermanos Conde shop. Has anyone tried to achieve this color in a top coat?
Marshall Dixon
Posts: 169
Joined: Tue May 21, 2019 8:58 pm
Location: SW Oregon

Re: Conde Orange.

Post by Marshall Dixon »

Don't know how Conde does it, but I've used orange shellac for a finish once. Had several problems with it. First, and unrelated to the color, was applying boiled linseed oil to he surface before the varnishing process. I read that linseed oil causes a polymerization of the shellac making it a harder surface, so I thought, "I'm going for it." Big mistake as the oil leaches out over time. Now I just use oil in the final stages of buffing with rottenstone.
Second was applying the shellac in too thick a mixture. It was a 2 or 3 pound cut and I put it on too thick and it was splotchy, which required way too much time to deal with.
The 3rd thing is staining any white purfling or rosette elements orange, which is probably my biggest reason for not using colored stains or dyes. Of course the easy way to deal with that problem is to skip the fine white purfling lines, but that esthetic doesn't quite fly all the time and taping over bindings, etc is not in my patience portfolio.
I ended up scraping away the color on the purfling lines and bindings and going over the edges with blond shellac and that helped, at least on the lacewood back. For the top, which was cedar, I ended up scraping away the finish completely, mainly because of all the white elements in the rosette.
Gilbert Fredrickson
Posts: 291
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:07 pm

Re: Conde Orange.

Post by Gilbert Fredrickson »

Yes, the Ramirez orange/amber is a proprietary tinted lacquer that colors the white elements amber. The Conde Orange covers everything, too. I guess covering the white parts with clear shellac would slow down the orange.
Marshall Dixon
Posts: 169
Joined: Tue May 21, 2019 8:58 pm
Location: SW Oregon

Re: Conde Orange.

Post by Marshall Dixon »

I think were I to use a colored finish again with light colored purflings, I'd go over those with a clear finish; build up several coats and then after the final color coats are done, sand/scrape/buff down to the clear coats. Could be done whether sprayed or padded. It has also been recommended to apply a clear base coat or two prior to the color coats. That's to help with splotchiness that occurs when the wood absorbs the colored finish unevenly.

I know this doesn't shed any light on Conde's methods, but if they don't worry about keeping the white purflings white, then your job is going to be a lot easier.
Alan Carruth
Posts: 1265
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:11 pm

Re: Conde Orange.

Post by Alan Carruth »

Orange is a very hard color to match; you can use orange dye/pigment, or a mix of red and yellow. If you use the wrong thing it may match in some lights, but not others. As I understand it, the Conde orange may have been an attempt to match the look of orange shellac in lacquer. That's what I was told by a maker in Spain back in the '70s. Keep in mind that if they used dyes they would probably have faded in ways that are different from shellac, and I gather the color was not terribly close to begin with. Your local paint store has the technology to match pigment colors, but I don't think they could do much with dyes.
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