Considering 1st build, electric lap steel, need more info [Pictures] - created 02-15-2009
May, Patrick - 02/15/2009.11:26:15
Hello!
Well I have known of this forum since I started into this guitar playing journey and have visited occasionally. I am a hands on guy and can't seem to undertake anything I do without wanting to build or make of fix my own stuff! So it is with guitar and I have decided to build a 6 string lap steel for two reasons. One, I already play some slide blues on acoustic and electric. Two, a lap steel seems to me a good place to start with instrument building for a beginner. So far I have only been drawing plans, measuring, designing, etc. but find it to be quite enjoyable. My plan has morphed alot according to design and function. I have had to do alot of research and am learning alot. But before I even make the first cut into my quater-sawn oak, I want to be as sure as I can that all the measurements are correct. My most recent design change has me puttin a "fretboard" on this thing to add a contrasting color of wood to the oak. I have seen and understand that the average string height for lap players is around 3/8 inches. The scale length I have chosen is "Gibson" 24.625 inches. I want to use a bone nut and a LMII fretboard, pre-slotted and thickness sanded to 1/4. I'll fill the slots with either a contrasting piece of wood, widening them a little on a radial arm saw, or acutually press fret-wire into them. Anyway my question is: Is 1/4 inch too low of action for a lap steel? I know it might depend on other stuff like how I tune it and what size strings I use, but I would appreciate your thoughts on this matter to help me "finalize" my plan before I start cutting wood.
Let's discuss! Thank you, Pat
Welcome out of the closet, Patrick. Have you looked into the Library here and read about making lap steels?
Hi Patrick, and welcome. I built a lap steel several years ago (pics are up on this board, in fact), and it was not only fun to build, but it's fun to play it as well.
I just did the contrasting wood for the "frets", since to put actual fret wire in there is just a waste. I used to have an old Epiphone Electar and it just had a painted board on it, sheet metal if I remember correctly.
As to tunings, if you go to the topic of "Will Morrison's weird lap steel", there is a link in there with a discussion of all kinds of lap steel tunings. I tend to do the usual ones (open D and G from the guitar world), and one from a guy named Sol Hoopi who was a monster Hawaiian player in the 30's. He did one he called C# minor, which is BDEG#C#E going from the 6th to the 1st string. He also did one he called High Bass A, which is AC#EAC#E. Check that link for others.
As to the height, I am not sure that it matters much, as long as the strings are high enough so they stay away from the fretboard, and are still close enough to the pickup. One of the things about string height is that as long as they are high enough, you can reach around behind the bar and bend strings that way as well as just using the bar. If they are too low, that could be a problem. 1/4" seems a bit low, but that is just me. You can make it whatever you want, that's the joy of instrument building.
Have fun, but then, I don't have to tell you that, now do I?
That's a long scale for a lap steel, they are generally around 22 1/2 inch. Personally I wouldn't buy a fretboard: the scale isn't right, and you only need the markers to help find the notes playing (fretwire is waste of time and money on a lapsteel), so the 'fret' positions aren't quite as critical as on a conventional instrument. That's not an excuse for inaccurate building, but if the marks are a smidge out, the instrument will still be playable, so there's no need to really worry about this aspect of the build too much.
Also, I prefer a much wider spacing at the nut, so your stock fretboard may not suit. 1/4 inch action sounds rather low: I prefer more height so I've got a little more space to get my fingers on the strings for behind the bar bending, and you may end up dragging the tip of the steel on the 'board if you are playing single note stuff with such a low action.
These are just personal preferences, and there are no hard and fast rules, so if you really want a long scale fretted lapsteel...you can go ahead and build one!
I think there's something to be said for a longer scale length. My steel is 25" just like a Dobro and has a very bluesy tonality; then again I use it for a full on overdriven rock sound (Ben Harper, John Butler).
Hi there!
I'm in the process of building a lap steel also, and for the fretboard I used clear acrylic (or plexiglass, I don't really now the exact translation of this) just like georgeboard does it, and laser engraved it.
The height I'll be using for the nut will be 15mm and the acrylic has 3mm so that makes it 12mm (that's 0,47 inches, I don't know if I did the correct conversion to imperial measurements
Thank you all
Ricardo
I don't know if you find this interesting... But here's a photo of the fretboard over the mahogany lap steel I'm building
Ricardo: Nice job, and some nice wood, too. How did you lay that out? masking tape doesn't usually leave that nice of an edge, so I am assuming some other approach. Very clean.
Thank you Will!
Well, this was done by laser, close to my home there's a company who works with acrylic, I did a Cad design, really simple, and they laser engraved it, I didn't think they would do this so cheap, because it only costed me 10 Euros (12 dollars), if I knew I would do a more elaborated design!
I'm glad you liked it.
Ricardo
Portugal
Wow this is a busy place. Mark, thanks for the welcome and the tip on the library. Will, I had already seen your lap previouly, cool inlay, and quite woody. John, I know that frets are a waste of time and money, but if either were a priority I would just buy an instrument and save both. It will give me an opportunity to pratice hammering in frets, albeit on a flat instead of radiused surface. Plus I think it makes it look more "guitar like". I know the short scales are prefered for doing slants as this question has come up on other boards, and most agree it's just a personnel preference.
Art, I like Bluesy tonality so I hope I am headed in the right direction. I'll look up those artist also, lately I have been trying to expand my listening range. Ricardo, the plexiglass "fretboard" that you did is nice. I like it because it let's the wood show thru. I am trying to use the least amount of plastic and paint on this particular instrument as I am trying to keep the theme more wood and metal like. Heck I might even make a wood pickup cover to replace the plastic one. I think your string height is more in the normal range than my suggested 1/4 inch. And it seems that 1/4 may indeed be a little low. The reason I asked about 1/4 inch is because I want to use a bone nut and the lap's I've seen appear to have the nut glued in place, both at the fretboard and the bottom of the nut. If I were to use a 1/4 inch fretboard and want say 3/8 inch action, that would make the nut TALL and I am a little concerned about the strength of it all. So now my question is will the glue only be strong enough for say, even a 1/2 inch string "action"???
Also which kind of glue?, keeping future disassembly in mind. One last thing also, where do I get a nut blank 3/4 tall by 1/4 wide by 2 1/2 long?
Patrick
For that size bone nut blank you might find a Dobro blank that will work or get a chunk of bone and make your own.
A couple small drops of regular old Tightbond will keep it in place.
On the topic of fretboards, if its a separate fretboard design, I slot a little ledge for the nut so it rides on top of the board ala Fender style. On my neck through designs, I inlay strait into the neck like this Deco model.
For the nut, you could use a piece of aluminum or get some Corian scrap from a sink installer/bath remodeler.
Making bone nuts from bleached cow bone from the pet store works well, but it's tedious, dusty, smelly work.
Tom, thanks for tip about dobro nut's, I have searched around and found some that will be big enough. I have seen your builds here and also on the steelguitarforum and think they are way cool.
Bill, I forgot about I could make my own nut from bleached cow bone. Tedious, dusty, and smelly don't bother me as some of my current and former occupations and hobbies have given me experience in those areas. Fly-tying = tedious, Sand-Blasting = dusty, and Fish Taxidermy = Smelly. Although I specialize in fish I'll also do horn mounts which entails sawing the skull plate of various animals on my bandsaw, then sanding flat with belt sander, EEEEEWWWWWWW! Ha Ha.
So it looks like 1/4 inch is a little low, so what I will do is choose bone nut at 1/2 high and whittle it down to a good height if need be after playing it. Also I have brass for the saddle and will whittle it down also as necessary to final playing height.
Thanks everyone and I WILL have more questions as I go.
Patrick,
For string center distance I favor 1-3/4 string spread at the nut for a six string, some prefer wider spacing.
As far as the nut material goes, consider brass. A brass nut and saddle will add appreciably to the amount of sustain youll get from your lap. A short section of 1/4 by 3/4 brass should be easily obtainable if you have a metal fabrication shop around. The nut can sit solidly on the neck surface and is lodged firmly between the fret board end and the angled edge of the headstock overlay. I do add a few quick file notches on the bottom and a drop or two of Titebond prior to stringing. Adhering the nut is not necessary, but it will prevent the nut from sliding sideways under string tension. This can happen in a conventional nut design such as mine due to more pull exerted from the bass side strings.
Have fun with your build!
Randy, I have looked around quite a bit for images and information about lap steels and when I found your site I was happy because it's loaded with photos and information about building them! Plus I think your designs are really classy. I knew an overlay was the thing I needed to keep any nut in place but because of the design of my guitar I was struggling to incorporate it into the plan. So I sat down at the proverbial drawing board and did a little re-designing and voila! came up with something that will allow me to add an overlay ( yippe I get to add more wood!) and not wreck the aesthetics. This building stuff now has me looking at new woodworking tools, exotic and not so exotic woods, and guitars and I think I like it! Having fun with it all! Thanks for info.
Pat, I used frets because I like the look and figured it would have been faster then making wood strips and inlaying them. I machined my own nuts and saddle from brass and had them nickel chrome plated. They are 3/8" tall and the design is a take off of Charlie's MIMF plan. It's your guitar so do what you want with it. Have Fun!
Here's a closer and clearer pic of the body and partial fret board.
Chris: That is REALLY pretty. I really like how it all works with itself, especially the blue pickups. Nice work! The body shape reminds me of an old Epiphone Electar that I used to have. Very art deco. Really nice instrument.
Thanks Will, the pup toppers are turquoise recon stone as are the dots. Swamp Ash body with maple board. I also wound the pups. It's of the tele family. I tried to carry the step theme through out it. Hard to tell but the saddle and nut have steps milled into them as is the side profile of the head. I was happy with the outcome as it kind of just evolved. That always seems to happen with my builds so far. I kind of know where I'm headed but see things on the way if you know what I mean.
Here's a scrap chunk of lumber, some tele parts and other grab box of parts guitar sprayed with some rattle can gold spray paint.
Cool! You even had an ash tray cover in the box. Just the humbucker or is there a bridge pup under there? I see the switch but don't know if you are splitting the hum coils.
I love that one Ellie, it looks like a Klingon weapon!
Chris on your fretted board did you do it like a Fender neck or do the frets after the finish?
Nope, no coil split, but there is a home wound tele pickup under the ashtray.
I love the way the ashtray covers look, but don't like using them unless they're on a lap steel.
Mike, I can't really remember just what I did on that one. I remember putting some tru oil on it first. I might have sprayed it after fretting it and gluing it into the toned body. Yeah, I think that's what I did. I'd look and see but that one I sold to a friend.
I think the ashtray makes for a not so bad hand rest on a lap too if you use a hand rest with your right hand technic, although I don't. I thought about that at first on mine too. It's a long story that amounts to spend a $ to save a dime. But I ended up with a Mini Mill set up.
I use the ash tray on my steel sometimes. Other times I want to palm damp so I take it off. I would never use one on a standard guitar but they do look cool.
Thanks Chris.