Using veneer or drop top wood to cap a carve top

Please put your pickup/wiring discussions in the Electronics section; and put discussions about repair issues, including "disappearing" errors in new instruments, in the Repairs section.
Post Reply
Christ Kacoyannakis
Posts: 252
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:58 pm

Using veneer or drop top wood to cap a carve top

Post by Christ Kacoyannakis »

I have noticed that the availability of wood for drop tops is much greater (and a lot less expensive) than wood for carve top electric guitars. I am wondering if it would be possible to carve the top of a body blank like a regular carve top (Les Paul type, for example) and then use a drop top cap or a thinner veneer to cover the top. I have a vacuum press, and am wondering if it would work to glue the top to the carved body. Has anybody tried this? I am wondering how thin you would have to make the cap so that it would conform to the carved top, and if a vacuum press would work for this. I have considered that you might have to heat up the top cap with a silicone blanket and steam and use the vacuum press to bend it to shape and then glue it later. Just looking to see if anybody has done this before, and if they have any ideas, pointer, tips or advice. Thanks all.
Eric Baack
Posts: 640
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:28 pm

Re: Using veneer or drop top wood to cap a carve top

Post by Eric Baack »

You have to adjust the centerline seam so that it matches the contour without buckling. There is a video on YouTube that shows this well. I did it on the attached guitar picture
Attachments
AE9A09FE-B6B4-49B3-84ED-3000193F8AFC.jpeg
User avatar
Barry Daniels
Posts: 3186
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:58 am
Location: The Woodlands, Texas

Re: Using veneer or drop top wood to cap a carve top

Post by Barry Daniels »

There are several discussions on this site of making laminated archtop plates. Here is a recent one:

http://www.mimf.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5422
MIMF Staff
Christ Kacoyannakis
Posts: 252
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:58 pm

Re: Using veneer or drop top wood to cap a carve top

Post by Christ Kacoyannakis »

Eric, I took a look at that video. Very cool. Can you please give me some more detailed information. How thick was the piece you glued on? Was it an actual veneer or something thicker? How thick? Also you mentioned a frame around the body. Was that just so that the top would not get bent over the body base? Did you do any bending before hand or was this veneer so flexible that it just conformed from the vacuum? Thanks!
Eric Baack
Posts: 640
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:28 pm

Re: Using veneer or drop top wood to cap a carve top

Post by Eric Baack »

The piece I used was a standard unbacked veneer thickness as far as I could tell. around 1/32" thick I think (been a while). I made the frame to avoid breaking the veneer over the edge since it was an existing body. I put binding on to hide any imperfections there. I did not have to pre-bend anything, just sanded a bit of relief to account for the arch. I did a couple of test vacuum pulls on it to make sure that it was good before gluing it up.
Christ Kacoyannakis
Posts: 252
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:58 pm

Re: Using veneer or drop top wood to cap a carve top

Post by Christ Kacoyannakis »

Thanks, Eric. I also found some other videos on YouTube, where they show the process. I now see what you mean about the center seam.
Freeman Keller
Posts: 494
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:34 am

Re: Using veneer or drop top wood to cap a carve top

Post by Freeman Keller »

Christ, a couple of random thoughts

I have applied commercial veneers to heads of several guitars. Here are a couple of fender style necks with 0.020 veneer

Image

The curves are simple cylinders and were done on a hot pipe and glued with a curved caul, very straight forward.

I haven't tried compound curves or a vacuum, but the veneer I worked with had a tendency to want to crack in all directions. As you know many veneers are planed from a rotating log - the grain runs in all sorts of weird directions (which gives them their beauty). I do know that when Gibson was making ES style laminated tops they did use both pressure and heat, I would think heat would be necessary for a complex bend.

Second, while most LP style guitars use a 5/8 thick top, they are arched so that the edge is 1/4 inch tall - the height of a normal piece of plastic binding. There is no reason you can take the recurve lower - if you made it 1/16 thick you could almost get by with a standard drop top (1/4 inch). This guitar was made that way - it is a 1/4 inch drop top that was carved some, but not as much as a LP. The binding channel goes down into the body wood. You have to adjust the geometry a bit but it does work

Image

Lastly, if you are going to put a veneer on it why even put the drop top on? Get a thick enough piece of whatever your body is going to be and just glue the veneer on it. For a Lester you would have to be very careful routing the switch and electronics cavities so they follow the top shape and you would have to drill the passage between switch and pickups and electronics but I don't see why you need the separate top at all.
Christ Kacoyannakis
Posts: 252
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:58 pm

Re: Using veneer or drop top wood to cap a carve top

Post by Christ Kacoyannakis »

Thanks for that information. My question really was two questions. 1. Could you use a drop top on an already carved body (so you would get an extra thick body, carve the appropriate shape into the body and then laminate it with a drop top)? 2. If one would not work, because the drop top was too thick to form to the carved body, how thin would you have to go to get the veneer to form to the body?

I have now found some videos that show regular veneer being used to cover a precarved top. Not sure a drop top that was 3/16 or 1/4 would conform to the shape of a carved top. Perhaps some curvature could be put in with more curvature put into the drop top.

I now think that it would just be easiest to carve the body to the appropriate shape and then use a regular veneer to cover it. It is not that difficult, and seems to come out well.
User avatar
Barry Daniels
Posts: 3186
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:58 am
Location: The Woodlands, Texas

Re: Using veneer or drop top wood to cap a carve top

Post by Barry Daniels »

It's more difficult than you think. But with proper technique it can be done.
MIMF Staff
Post Reply

Return to “Solid-Body and Chambered or Semi-Solid Electric Guitars and Bass Guitars”